I Came to Make a Statement, MTV interview with Kurt Loder 2001 (Grammys)

Loder: So what happened when you and Elton met? I guess you met on Monday or something.

Eminem: Yeah, [when] we did the rehearsal.

Loder: Did he say, "Here's what I'm gonna do"?

Eminem: Nah, we didn't even really discuss it. We said "What up" and I thanked him for sticking up for me in the press, and then we just got down to the rehearsal. He played his piano and started singing, and I came in and started rapping, and it was it.

Loder: Is there a message intended - you, and Elton John as a gay man, and the two of you together? I mean, was there ... were you trying to say something along those lines?

Eminem: Well, people on this album, when it came out - and I think you were the first person to ask me the question on the front porch of my own house: Was I homophobic? - and that whole thing came about from the original version of "My Name Is." ... You said something [in] reference to my lyrics in that song, which ended up getting changed anyway, because the person we sampled [for "My Name Is"] was a gay living in South America now, and in order to use that sample, which I wanted to use so badly, I had to change my lyrics about the English teacher in junior high or whatever. Which I thought was f---ed up, but you know, whatever, we wanted the sample. So you had asked, and various people starting asking me in interviews: Am I homophobic? And I really didn't understand where their question was coming from. I'm like, here I am, somebody who came from getting picked on for what I looked like and for who I am, and I'm thinking I'm sticking up for people who get picked on for what they look like, and my first reaction, naturally, was, "All right. If somebody's going to back me into a corner, all right, f--- it, I hate f--gots." You know what I'm saying?

Loder: So you're just doing it for the shock value?

Eminem: My answer was, "F--- you, all right, if that's what you want me to be, then I'm going to be that to the fullest." And that's what I've always been about. It's like, if somebody backs me into a corner, that's what I'm going to tell you ... my first instinct, my first reaction is gonna be, "F--- you. If you think I'm an a--hole and that's your first impression of me, then that's what I'm going to be to the fullest."

Loder: At this point, it's been a long year with this record. Every time something comes up where people are angry about something in this culture, your name is brought up into it. Are you tired of it? Do you think it's a bad rap? Or do you understand where the gay activists say the word f--got is like the word n-----?

Eminem: No, it's not.

Loder: You don't think so?

Eminem: No, it's not. Watch the Blaze Battle on HBO. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but the Blaze Battle that aired on HBO earlier this year was what I came up in. MCing and trying to degrade the first person that was in your face, saying something to you, you had to say something back. I guarantee you the word "f--got" was used at least 10 times in the Blaze Battle, which is an MC battle, which is where I came from the underground. The first reaction to degrade a man and strip him of his manhood is to call him a f--got. It doesn't necessarily mean you're gay or whatever, it's just trying to say the lowest, most degrading thing you can say to somebody who's in your face. You try to strip them of their manhood. You're basically - what you're calling them is a little girl. You know what I mean? "You're not a man, you can't stand up to me, you little girl." You try to strip them of their manhood. If you watch that, I guarantee it was used at least 10 times. "F--got."

Loder: Do you think it's something you'll pursue on your next record? Do you think you've said all you have to say along these lines?

Eminem: I guess I'll know that when I sit down with an ink pen. But as far as this album, this last album - I mean, I said that I raped my mother on the album, and I said that I killed Dre on this album. So I've said a lot of sh-- on this album, and the first thing that was attacked was the gay sh--, the gay references on the album.

Loder: Ten years ago, Axl Rose of Guns N' Roses put out a song that said, "Police and n-----s, get out of my way" -

Eminem: I remember that

Loder: - and then [Rose] said, "Well, 'n-----' doesn't mean 'black person' to me." He was kind of pardoned for it at the time. I mean, n----- [has] a sort of specific meaning.

Eminem: I think that's a whole different category. I can't speak for Axl Rose; I don't know anything about his life and how he was brought up. But me, of course, it's not a secret now. My life, my upbringing is in the public [eye] constantly. People know how I was raised and whatever. So I do black music, and there's no escaping it, no matter how big I get or whatever. This is where I came from and this is what I do, and I'm not going to deny that. So that's a word I don't use by choice.

Loder: Do you see how - to press this point - how gay people may feel that "f--got" to them is just as bad as "n-----" would be to a black person?

Eminem: Not really.

Loder: Why not?

Eminem: Just because of the situations I was brought up in. Just as - as coming from, like I told you, coming from an underground MC, that's a word that flies about so freely that it's just like it's trying to strip somebody of their manhood. And I use a lot of other words on the album, I mean, on this last album especially. I kill myself on the record, I talk about fat people. Where's the organization that's going to come after me, Fat People Anonymous? You know what I mean? I think that what it really boils down to is that people needed something to b-tch about, and they were tired of Marilyn Manson. So I think they kind of locked in on me.

Loder: When you came up to get the first Grammy, you thanked everybody who saw the album for what it was and looked past what it wasn't, which is interesting. What do you think this record represented?

Eminem: I think this record represented freedom of speech. Being able to say what you want to say. Artistic expression. ... I know when I sit down with a pen - whatever I'm feeling at that moment - and I've always got the urge to go into the studio to record it right then while I'm feeling it, to, I guess, capture the emotion or whatever. That's what I do, and if a song comes out, I want to put it out. It's how I feel at the time. It's different, if you listen to a Tupac record, you might hear him contradict himself a lot. He might have anti-violence lyrics in one song, in "Keep Ya Head Up," and talk about sticking up for women, and in another song he might be saying, "b-tch, ho," you know what I mean? If you listen to a Tupac record, you hear different emotions and expressions and moods he was going through in his life.

Loder: If you follow an artist's career, doesn't an artist resolve those contradictions? Isn't that what art is about - so that you resolve those contradictions, so you have like one line of thought? Do you think you were angry about the same things before the record came out a year ago?

Eminem: No. I'm totally angry about different things now.

Loder: Is it possible to sell 8 million records and still be really, really angry?

Eminem: It is, of course it is. I mean, if you mean to the effect of "I've sold a lot of records and now I've got a lot of money and I've made a name for myself so I should be satisfied," it's not true. Because now it's not even about the money. It's about music. If I sold 100 million records and had all the money in the world, I would still love to do what I'm doing. I still wouldn't ... quit just because, OK, I'm not in this for the money and I said that in the beginning and I'll say that 'til the day I die. No matter how much money - if I succeed in this business or I don't, [if I] fail miserably - I'm still going to love to do this. If I'm recording in a big studio or I'm recording on an 8-track making demos, I'm still going to love to do this music. It's what I love the most, is making the music.

Loder: The Marshall Mathers LP is coming from one place. I'm just wondering if you've moved on at all over the course of the last year. Are you a different person at all?

Eminem: I think so. I think that I've experienced a lot this year, this past year and a half, since the album came out. I think I've went through a lot in my personal life and I've - I think I've matured a lot and grown, which, I guess if you're a true artist, that's what you're going to do; that's what you're supposed to do. So I think people definitely hear a difference - what's the word I'm looking for? - not necessarily a different me, but a more mature [me]. I think people will see my growth as far as [being] an artist.

Loder: To get back to the Grammys for a minute, how did they treat you back there? I mean, you're back there, Christina Aguilera was there, Carson Daly was there. 'NSYNC was there. Did you run into them backstage?

Eminem: No. I don't really care about all that. I was just back in the dressing room, just with my people, just doing what we normally do.

Loder: Have you sort of passed that whole teen-pop thing? The Britney, Christina...

Eminem: I mean, yeah, of course, I still think it's corny, but I'm not mad at 'em anymore. I think the main reason I attacked it in the first place is because I was classified in that group and I wanted to make sure, make certain, that people knew that that's not what I'm about. That's not what category I should be classified as.

Loder: Did you hear any of Jon Stewart's stuff out there? The guy that was hosting the show?

Eminem: I just heard about it coming on the way here.

Loder: He said, "I saw Eminem backstage, and he's so gay."

Eminem: Yeah. No, he didn't see me backstage. And when he did see me backstage, I made a comment about it, and he said, [mimicking Jon Stewart] "I don't hate you, man, I was in the moment and da da da da da." Whatever. I said, "I'm a fan of you, dude. Don't let me down."

Loder: So you won't be going off to the bathroom with George Michael or anything?

Eminem: I heard about that too. It's funny. It's like, how can I be mad at that when I sit around and I poke at everyone anyway? It's like you can dish it out, but you can't take it. I can take it. But he knows what time it is.

Loder: You thanked a lot of people tonight, but you didn't thank Kim, your wife. Are you guys together?

Eminem: Ah, I wouldn't even - I don't want to comment on that. But I did thank my little girl.

Loder: Yeah.

Eminem: I thank her every day. Every day I wake up, I thank her.

Loder: Now that you've got these Grammys, what are you going to do with them?

Eminem: What am I going to do with them?

Loder: Well, you've got a couple already. What've you done with them? Are they holding up doors?

Eminem: [laughs] Last year when I had won the two Grammys, I kept one and I gave the other one to Paul, my manager. He was like, "Since you don't care about them, can I have one of them?" I was like, "OK, go ahead, I don't care." But I've got this trophy case at home that I try and keep my accomplishments in, just so that Hailie can see these things when she gets older and realizes that Daddy wasn't just gone just to be gone, you know what I mean? So I'll probably put them in my trophy case, I guess.

Loder: I mean, does it feel good to get that stuff? It's not a bad thing, right?

Eminem: It's definitely not a bad thing. I definitely love the fact of getting recognized for my talents, for being able to do what I do, but I'm not really in it to get trophies or awards. The main thing I started this whole career, based [it] on, was acceptance and respect. So I guess if trophies mean respect, it's cool, I'll take it, but my most important thing to me and anybody around me will tell you is getting a Quotable in The Source, a Hip-Hop Quotable, or something. My street credibility means everything to me. If that's taken away from you, you have no foundation to fall back on.

Loder: Did you worry about that in doing this thing with Elton John, because he's so pop, it's sort of like moving to this pop thing?

Eminem: No, I just wanted to piss people off.

Loder: Do you think you succeeded?

Eminem: We'll see tomorrow, in the papers, I guess.

Loder: The big hug will be in the paper tomorrow, and of course you flipped everybody off. What was the message there?

Eminem: Oh, I did, didn't I? What was the message there? Um ... the message there. You mean hugging Elton John.

Loder: Well, and flipping everyone off.

Eminem: The whole meaning behind it was homophobic ... now what? F--- you. Say something else about me.

Loder: Do you think about where you can take what you do as an art as it matures? Do you see where you want it to go and what you want it to become?

Eminem: I don't know. I can't really say where I see it going or where I want it to go. I want it to grow with me as I grow as a person, but I don't have any plans about what I'm going to be rapping about five years from now, you know what I mean? Like, I don't really look at it like that. I just take it in stride, and whenever something happens to me in my personal life, I always tend to write about it, and that's how I blow off steam. That's just the direction I'm going to take it - as long as I'm in the music business and writing songs - is just taking everything in stride and seeing where it leads me. I don't have any immediate plans. I mean, maybe 10 years from now, I might want to be sitting behind a board producing music without me rapping on it or making appearances in it, and this and that. Kind of like Dre does. You know, sit back and just run sh--.

Loder: Have you done any new stuff with Dre yet? The new stuff you're writing - have you gotten together with him?

Eminem: He did three tracks on the D12 album, which is something to hear. But other than that, we ain't really got together. D12 has been my main priority right now. It's getting this album out, and then after that, I don't know. Bizarre [of D12] is a character. I think that after this record comes out, some people might even believe that he's worse than me. [laughs] He's out there with the things he talks about. It's humorous, but to some people it might not be. [There are] whole songs out there that might piss some people off.

Loder: The same people that were pissed off about [your] last record?

Eminem: Yeah. Maybe some new people, too. But the album is finished. When I come back from Europe we're mixing it down, so we'll have our 14 songs.

Loder: So you're with us before you know it. Is the video done?

Eminem: Not yet. The video concepts we've got in our head, but the video is not done until we finish the single.

Loder: Is [the D12 album] going to be very different from...

Eminem: I'm just having fun with that record.

Loder: Is it going to be anything like The Marshall Mathers LP - that angry?

Eminem: Yeah, the D12 record is definitely coming out along the lines of The Marshall Mathers LP. As far as my own solo record, my next record, it's probably going to capture a lot of emotion. I think I want to make this next record, my next record, more of a feel record, where every song is different. There's emotion in every song. With the D12 record that's coming out, we have fun in the studio, and I think that's going to show. We like to clown around a lot. It's kind of my less serious side. But as far as my next record ... every song I do, I want there to be a purpose behind it, and a message. I want there to be a certain feel to it that captures whatever I'm feeling at that time. ... I think I've proven my rap skills; now I want to show that I can write whole songs, and song-songs.

Loder: Like verse/bridge/chorus?

Eminem: I want to show - I want to be able to capture emotion. Especially at a time like this, when I'm going through what I'm going through.

Loder: Does the upcoming sentencing hang over your head in a major way?

Eminem: Yeah, it does, it does. It's definitely something that would be, I think, depicted in my songs on my next album. That's why I said the next album is gonna be a real emotional album. It's f---ed to have something that hangs over your head no matter how successful you are, no matter how far you think you've come. ... Puffy will tell you that. No matter how successful or how powerful a businessman you become, you f--- up, you're in the system. Once you're in the system, and you're f---ed. Once they've got you, you're f---ed. It's "Yes sir, no sir."

Loder: Do you think back to that and think, "If I could just control my temper more..." I mean, a lot of people, when they're young, have a really bad temper, but they sort of mellow out of it.

Eminem: It's definitely something I regret, being in the position that I'm in. It was definitely stupid. In the heat of the moment, what can you really do? You do something and you wish you could take it back, but it's done. What can you do?

Loder: You've gotta be thinking [about] if something happens with the sentencing thing, if you have to go away or something ... it must be an awful feeling, right? You've got a little daughter.

Eminem: The biggest thing hanging over my head is if I do go to jail, what to say to her? What do I really say? "Daddy was bad, I'm sorry, I'm going away for a little while?" I'm sure she's used to me being gone, but not a longtime stretch. Like a year or two years, something like that, I'm sure she's not used to that. It's a week or two weeks here and there and I always end up back home.

Loder: Does your daughter Hailie know who you are, in the full sense of it?

Eminem: Oh, yeah. She does now, she definitely does. She's five years old now, and she's really smart for her age. And my niece lives with us too, and she's eight, and Hailie learns a lot from my niece ... they just feed off each other. It's kind of scary, how smart a little girl can get so quick. She has sleepovers and their friends run around the house, like, "Is that your uncle?" They say, "Hailie, is that your dad? You're so lucky." [They're] getting autographs before I leave, and asking me to come upstairs and rap for them. People used to ask me, "Do you let your daughter listen to your music?" And it used to be - when she couldn't pick up on it - "Yeah, I do." When she didn't understand all the words. But now she's starting to understand all the words, and - especially [with] my new stuff - I can't really play it around her. She picks up on it, and I don't want her to get the wrong idea, because she's not going to know how to take it.

Loder: What words do you not want her to hear?

Eminem: Not just the words: the anger in my voice. I don't bring that around her. That's one thing I don't want her to see or to have to experience. Being this little, the only thing I want her to worry about is playing - What's she going to play with today? Is she going to play with dolls, is she going to color today?

Loder: Are there words or concepts you don't want her to hear either? Or just are there songs you prefer to keep away from her, not just because the anger in them, but because of the things that you are saying?

Eminem: Yeah, it's a combination of things, but I think - mostly with my new material - I think it's the anger in my voice even more so than the words.

Loder: The stuff you're writing now?

Eminem: I used to play my music when - If I was working on something and checking out a mix, I used to play it around her. But now, it's like, I don't even want to do that anymore. The more adult I'm becoming, the more I'm realizing that this might have an affect on her, or it might scare her, or she might hear a word or a sentence that she doesn't know how to take. I'd just rather not even play it around her.